Whatta Buncha Weenies!
What is the dealio with the extreme reluctance, shall we say, of the legislature to stick by the law? An illegal alien is i l l e g a l. Here in defiance of the law of the land. Breaking the law.The House overwhelmingly rejected ...The Undocumented Alien Emergency Medical Assistance Act [which] would have required hospitals that accept federal reimbursement for the cost of treating illegal immigrants in their emergency rooms to ask the immigration status and other personal information from foreign-born patients. The government would have deported patients found to be in the United States illegally.
According to Rohrabacher, the bill would have allowed hospitals and doctors to treat people in life-threatening situations. What it would have stopped is the day-to-day medical treatment for which most illegal aliens turn to Emergency Rooms. So you will continue to be forced to pay for the medical care of yourself, your children, and every person who decides to leave his country and come here to ride on your back. The major opponent of this bill? "National Council of La Raza " Shocked, I am. Though, according to Dana Rohrabacher, the majority of the illegals entering the country in the last couple of years are from China. Here are some of the people to thank: Rep. Hilda Solis, D-El Monte Reps. Xavier Becerra, D-Los Angeles; Howard Berman, D-Van Nuys; Howard P. "Buck" McKeon, R-Santa Clarita; Brad Sherman, D-Sherman Oaks; Adam Schiff, D-Pasadena; Rep. Henry Waxman, R-Los Angeles. However, Rep. Elton Gallegly, R-Thousand Oaks, voted in favor of the bill. [thanks, Elton.]
What is the dealio with the extreme reluctance, shall we say, of the legislature to stick by the law?
Chortle. ISTR you had a lot less problem with this issue when it was a matter of holding the recall on its original schedule…
Posted by on 05/19/04 at 12:18 PMMaybe, dear ****, that is because the latter has a chance of saving me $10 billion and the former is costing $10 billion. I’m *such* a mercinary guurll.
Posted by Claire on 05/19/04 at 12:26 PMHmmm. Your blog doesn’t seem to remember my name and e-mail address any more, even when it is typed in. Oh, well…
Have you ever read Hazlitt’s “Economics in One Lesson”? It’s a very short read and a very good book. He points out that a lot of fallacious economic thinking is based on the idea that there is only one pocket and if you have taken money out of that pocket then it is all outgo. It’s just in another pocket, that’s all. You’re playing peek-a-boo with the contents of your pockets.
If you tot up the overall economic effect of a labor force that exists under the radar, then medical benefits to illegals is—well, not trivial, but not an unreasonable price to pay. California’s huge agricultural industry (I’ve heard it said that California produces 1/5 of all human foodstocks in the U.S.) benefits particularly.
I’ve never been particularly impressed by the arguments restricting emmigration. The U.S.’s history until about 1920—i.e., the very most explosively productive century-plus of our existence—was dominated by unrestricted emmigration, and it was a net benefit. The “Illegal” alien is a very new thing in American life, and not something I think we should be very proud of—it’s not so much a “victimless” crime as one in which the “victim” benefits from the “criminal.”
Posted by on 05/20/04 at 02:09 AMThe figure I heard from Rohrabacher was $10 billion in ER health care, alone. Add in police and fire, schools, welfare [not the hardworking immigrants of our parents’ generation,] and all the other public monies, and I get lost in the figures. Anyone out there counting this?
In the hey-days of immigratioh to the US there were very strict standards to enter: job, sponsor, health, living quarters. Admittedly, these weren’t *ahem* ideal then, either. But there were no immigrants on the dole, cuz there *wasn’t* any public assistance.
Posted by Claire on 05/20/04 at 02:46 AMI still say it’s a bargain.
Posted by on 05/20/04 at 09:09 AMBeck that up with some hard, balanced numbers and we’ll talk further.
Posted by Claire on 05/20/04 at 09:53 AMOK—doesn’t require fancy computing here; food cost is around 35 and 40% less in the U.S. than it is in Europe (on average). domestic consumption of agriculture products is around $150 ****ion; California is responsible for about 1/4 or1/5 of that—call it $40 ****ion; the differential between American and European food costs is about $14 ****ion.
Not counting any other contribution made by guestworkers del Sud to the American economy (or any subtraction, either) the impact on California’s agricultural economy is greater than $10 ****ion. Now if you want to count the cost of domestic help, that number will increase.
all figures rough and off the top of my head, and assuming that the capital investment is proportionately about the same in America as in Europe. I don’t actually have statistics on that—it’s a WAG.
Posted by on 05/20/04 at 12:34 PMOK—doesn’t require fancy computing here; food cost is around 35 and 40% less in the U.S. than it is in Europe (on average). domestic consumption of agriculture products is around $150 ****ion; California is responsible for about 1/4 or1/5 of that—call it $40 ****ion; the differential between American and European food costs is about $14 ****ion.
Not counting any other contribution made by guestworkers del Sud to the American economy (or any subtraction, either) the impact on California’s agricultural economy is greater than $10 ****ion. Now if you want to count the cost of domestic help, that number will increase.
all figures rough and off the top of my head, and assuming that the capital investment is proportionately about the same in America as in Europe. I don’t actually have statistics on that—it’s a WAG.
Posted by on 05/20/04 at 12:34 PMOK—doesn’t require fancy computing here; food cost is around 35 and 40% less in the U.S. than it is in Europe (on average). domestic consumption of agriculture products is around $150 ****ion; California is responsible for about 1/4 or1/5 of that—call it $40 ****ion; the differential between American and European food costs is about $14 ****ion.
Not counting any other contribution made by guestworkers del Sud to the American economy (or any subtraction, either) the impact on California’s agricultural economy is greater than $10 ****ion. Now if you want to count the cost of domestic help, that number will increase.
all figures rough and off the top of my head, and assuming that the capital investment is proportionately about the same in America as in Europe. I don’t actually have statistics on that—it’s a WAG.
Posted by on 05/20/04 at 12:34 PMSorry about that—I DID retype name and e-mail addy, and it got sent 3 times because my virus trapper caught my system trying to send my e-bay password out. I’ll try to avoid that in future.
Posted by on 05/20/04 at 12:36 PMok, Mister Redundance; - now subtract the $10-15 billiion in medical costs we pay for them; plus the straight up welfare, food stamps and other dole monies $??,???,???. Add to that the $30 billion that they send home to family in Mexico every year. Gone. Out of the US. Buh-bye.
Then add to that the vast majority of them who only come here to work in the temporary jobs, arriving in Spring and all gone by November 15. [They wet-back in with coyotes and such but they just get an airline ticket to go home.] Not exactly “Investing in America,” I’d say. Plus the estimate of an increase of 20 million illegal and legal immigrants in the next 20 years [from China, etc. as well as Mexico.] [From everywhere but Europe. Today… until there are a few more trains blown up...]
Then add on the whole La Raza, Alta California, Mazatlan crappola—and I’m beginning to get a tad pissed.
I’ll happily pay $5 per lb for a good tomato. I will continue not to buy those little pink softballs they sell now.
Seriously; America pays a ridiculously low price for food as compared to the rest of the world. Most of which does *not* rely on illegal immigrant labor. It would be no burden to pay more for food if we weren’t forced into involuntary servitude to fund all of the above-mentioned dole.
Posted by Claire on 05/20/04 at 01:32 PMWm, Just in case you check back here—your email is getting bounced. Do you still exist?
Posted by Claire on 05/20/04 at 01:42 PMnot if you address it to my actual e-mail addrress!
I had a hardware crash and lost my hard drive a couple of weeks ago, so *everything is different* for me—but it’s the software on your end that is wiping out the name and e-mail addy I have to retype for every comment and then substituting my name for the first four letters of “****ion.”
As to your content reply, above, OK—so we broaden out the size of the economies we look at, we have to take into account more positive inputs as well as more negative inputs—the point is, the U.S. economy takes a benefit from its cheap labor force, and that labor force has a cost associated with it.
While I think that on net the cost-hit we have to take is less than or equal to the benefits received for it, that’s not really the point. You are really not making an economic argument, though you cast things in terms of economics. the argument you are actually making is “these people are not my family and I don’t see why I should be burdened with them.”
My reply is, they are your family, whether you wish to think of it that way or not (get over it); and if you admit the validity of taxation for social problems at all, then you have no logical way of arguing against medical benefits for guest-workers (a less dehumanizing way of referring to “illegal aliens")(by which you don’t really mean illegal aliens, you mean Latin Americans).
Posted by on 05/21/04 at 02:13 AMOK, using the suggestions you sent me in e-mail let’s try it again: “billion.”
Posted by on 05/21/04 at 02:20 AMFirst, I’m very sorry for your loss. It must be devastating to lose a part of one’s brain like that. *rubs talismans - sacrifices goat*
On net, I think that the balance falls far short of any benefits for us. The people coming in are mostly uneducated, unskilled and have lots of kids. [It’s a demographic - not a slur.] There are not near enough jobs for unskilled workers as it is - even the price of street-corner labor is falling. Most future jobs will require at least a working knowledge of English, and some literacy. What with the state of CA schools, the children if the people-coming-in-in-defiance-of-the-law will have little or no education as well.
if you admit the validity of taxation for social problems at all
What are you smokin’?!?!? Is it the water where you now live? Too much West Wing?? I barely admit to the validity of taxation for military defense or roads. I certainly do not admit to the validity of taxing American citizens for the support of all the left-over people from Mexico’s failed economic policies.They may certainly be my family—in that Family of Man kind o’ way—but it is deeply disrespectful to them to funnel them into the dependancy of the dole. No worse thing you can do to a human. I say what I would say to any other member of my family, “Get a damn job; your legs ain’t broke.”
And as for the drivel about “dehumanizing way to refer to” them: they have broken the law by immigrating in a manner which is against the law! Therefore they are “illegal” and they are “immigrants.” Paste those two together and you have a perfectly serviceable, descriptive term for human beings who have broken the law. They are *not* guests—guests are invited ...though that argument holds no water what with Bush’s latest immigration “policy.” nevermind.
Still, “guest workers” is one of those knit-your-own-yoghurt euphimisms that obscures realities with guilt-slinging worthy of a Jewish/Catholic mother. sheesh.
Yes, I certainly *do* mean Mexicans—particularly the Mexicans who believe they are “re-taking California one block at a time.” But that is another rant. I also mean Chinese, South East Asians, Belgians, men from Mann and chickens from Elbonia—*if* they are in this country without benefit of legal process.
These are *not* your grandfather’s immigrants . . .
Posted by Claire on 05/21/04 at 02:55 AMOh, my! Where to begin…
Well, let’s start with “guestworker.” It’s not an ideal way to refer to people, true—but at least “worker” has something to do with human being, which is why I prefer it rather than reducing them to something out of a spaceship adn not even one’s own species. Also, it’s the common expression used in Europe for people whose families are in one country but who earn their livings in another country. You come with a more accurate label and we’ll use that one.
I can’t get all het up about the illegal bit—change the law and it won’t be illegal. This is a manufactured “crime” that doesn’t correspond to any damage to anyone. The dole you complain about is a separate issue; you can remove it if you like. If I understand your version of reality, if there wasn’t a dole they wouldn’t come here since there aren’t any jobs. Oh, a few sniveling whiners will still come—those who didn’t particularly care to have their genitalia cut off and stuffed into their mouths where they were trying to mind their own business.
I think I’m done for the moment.
Posted by on 05/21/04 at 12:29 PMAlso, it’s the common expression used in Europe
oy. Now I’m gonna take expression advice from the Euro-Weenies?!?!? yeah.
You come with a more accurate label and we’ll use that one.
I got one: “illegal alien” alien: [adj] Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents illegal: [adj] Prohibited by law. [n] An illegal immigrant.
See? English. Well, American.
the illegal bit—change the law and it won’t be illegal
ok, I’ll go there with you on many, many silly laws. *cough*drug laws*cough* But I must point out that all “crimes” are manufactured, the Law being an artifact of Man. Well, most of Man…
What I’ve just been discussion *is* the harm that is caused to the legal, tax paying citizenry of
CA. Let’s mention the 30% of jails that would be empty. D of J estimates $3 billion in justice related expenses to states—not counting incarcerations. Increased police costs. Education costs. Bi-freakin-lingual education, ferhevinsakes. Even though it was proven detrimental to the kids. sheesh.Oh, a few sniveling whiners will still come—those who didn’t particularly care to have their genitalia cut off and stuffed into their mouths where they were trying to mind their own business.
Well smack me with a cream pie and dip me in chocolate… I was completely unaware of the genitalia-stuffing custom in Mexico. Is it state sponsored? Like Saddam? Maybe you could provide some reference materials so I could catch up. And here *I* thought it was just Mexico’s failed economic policies… me oh my…
Well, don’t be too done—here is a little “film” I think you might enjoy: <a href="">“Un Día Sin Mexicanos ‘La Movie’: Los Gringos van a llorar” </a>. Este gringa no creo que le gusta el nombre “gringa.” Pienso es similar a “beaner.” Que va a hacer…
Posted by Claire on 05/21/04 at 01:06 PM
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